What happens when you’ve saved enough money to retire but haven’t figured out what comes next? Tony Hixon, author of Retirement Stepping Stones: Find Meaning, Live with Purpose, and Leave a Legacy, shares the personal experience that changed the way he thinks about retirement planning. After his mother retired with financial security but struggled to find purpose in her new life, Tony realized that preparing for retirement requires much more than getting the numbers right.
In this episode, you’ll learn how to prepare for the emotional and social changes that come with retirement, identify the values and activities that give your life meaning, and recognize the warning signs of burnout before you reach retirement age. Tony also explains why it’s important to have a plan for an average Tuesday, test-drive your retirement lifestyle before leaving work, and build a legacy while you’re still here to enjoy it. Whether retirement is years away or just around the corner, this conversation will help you think beyond your financial plan and create a next chapter that feels meaningful.
Listen to the full episode here:
What you will learn:
- Why financial security alone doesn’t guarantee a fulfilling retirement. (4:20)
- How Tony’s mother’s experience changed his approach to retirement planning. (9:35)
- Why retirement preparation needs to include emotional and social well-being. (17:00)
- How to identify the values and activities that give your life meaning. (24:00)
- Why having a Plan B can help you navigate unexpected changes. (27:05)
- How the halftime analogy can help you prepare for the next stage of life. (31:00)
- Why you should plan what an average Tuesday will look like in retirement. (40:20)
- How to build a meaningful legacy and make a difference while you’re still alive. (52:00)
Ideas Worth Sharing:
- “In the midst of burnout, it’s really thinking into who you are, who you’re encoded to be, what interests you, what do you care about, what brings you passion and joy beyond imagination? And it might not be the work you’re doing, and that’s okay.” – Tony Hixon
- “I think it’s okay to slow down. I think it’s okay to take the time needed to discover what’s next, and that first step is to identify your values.” – Tony Hixon
- “Most attorneys think that it’s cool to put all the inheritance in the will, and you have to die for the next generation to really be blessed or for your philanthropic goals to be met. Now why not start today? Why not define what that legacy is that you’d like to leave and see it in action?” – Tony Hixon
Resources from this episode:
- Tony Hixon: Website | LinkedIn
- Retirement Stepping Stones by Tony Hixon
- Hixon Zuercher Capital Management
- Retirement Stepping Stones Workbook
- Find Meaning, Live with Purpose, and Leave a Legacy TEDx
- Mason & Associates: LinkedIn
- John Mason: LinkedIn
- Tommy Blackburn: LinkedIn
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Read the Transcript Below:
John Mason: Welcome to the Federal Employee Financial Planning Podcast. Today, we’re joined by Tony Hixon, co-founder and CEO of Hixon Zuercher Capital Management, a fee-only wealth management firm he launched with his business partner, Adam Zuercher, back in 2002. A few years ago, Tony wrote a book called Retirement Stepping Stones: Find Meaning, Live with Purpose, and Leave a Legacy.
It lays out a framework for thinking about retirement as more than a math problem, covering the values, identity, and purpose side of the transition that doesn’t always get the same attention as traditional financial planning. In this episode, we discuss the transition to retirement, the challenges, and how to prepare financially and emotionally for the transition.
Retirement is exciting and can be a wonderful time, but in Tony’s book, he discusses having a need to have a plan B leading into retirement.
Are you burned out at work? Are you retiring in the next one to three years? Are you already retired or just wanting a different retirement conversation? This episode is for you.
Tony, welcome to the Federal Employee Financial Planning Podcast.
Tony Hixon: Hey, John. Nice to see you. Thanks for having me.
John Mason: It’s our pleasure, and audience, for you today, we have myself, Tony Hixon, and Tommy Blackburn on the Federal Employee Financial Planning Podcast. And Tony, I just want to say, right from the beginning, thank you because I really feel like your book, your guidebook, the conversation that we’ve had previously really transformed me as a planner, and I know it’s having an impact on my family as well.
Mike Mason, Bobby Mason, Ken Mason are all going to be reading your book, and it’s reverberating. It’s having impact across the practice, which is pretty cool.
Tony Hixon: That’s so honoring. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Gives me goosebumps, and I’m looking forward to having a deeper dive and a great conversation with you guys.
And Tommy, good to see you as well.
Tommy Blackburn: Yeah, thank you, Tony. Great to have you on here today, and I echo everything John just said. It has been, between your book and Bob Laura’s, it’s helping me as a practitioner, I think our firm as practitioners, and personally, and those around us in life, just give it more thought.
So thank you.
John Mason: Audience, we’re going to link in the show notes and description a whole bunch of stuff for you. You’ll have the guidebook from Tony Hixon’s book. You’re going to have his website, tonyhixon.com. He has a coaching service, so there’s a lot for you to explore, a lot of resources. We’ll link to his TED Talk.
So you’re going to hear us reference all of this stuff throughout the episode. It will all be in the notes and description, so please check out all of that. And then we do have some copies of Tony’s book as well. He was able to share some of those with us. So if you’d like a free copy of the book, Retirement Stepping Stones, shoot us an email to masonfp@masonllc.net.
We obviously need your name and address, and we will get that book right out to you. So Tony, your story is unique and powerful and tragic and transformative, and I’m probably not doing it justice with all the adjectives, but wow, you and your family have been through a lot. So I think it’d be great if you’ll just share with our audience your story, how you came to write the book that you’ve written, how you’ve shaped your practice, as we lead into the episode today.
Tony Hixon: For sure.
Yeah, I appreciate the lead-in. And, by way of setting the background, the story revolves around a circumstance that happened with my mom. And so if you know my mom, she’s loving, made me feel like I was the most important son in the world, like all good moms should.
So, it was quite a tragedy to end up losing her, and that’s where the story will lead. So in 1971, my mom graduated as a registered nurse, and she found herself at a local hospital where she was working swing shifts, and that really wasn’t conducive to raising her young family, including my older sister and myself.
And she engaged in other employment opportunities and ended up at a home health agency locally, and that provided her more steady hours and a more steady income as well. And this would’ve been in the early ’80s, and pretty soon hospice began to become a thing. And as we sit here today, hospice is a very familiar word, but in the ’80s it was new, and she found herself on the forefront and the leading edge of the conversation of providing what is hospice care and palliative care to those patients that would be basically done with the healthcare system and ready to go home and be surrounded by family and familiar surroundings.
She loved her work. She found her greatest meaning, her deepest joy, was to care for those patients as they transitioned from this life to the next. And yet it was there that she found the greatest career burnout that I had ever seen. It was around the mid-2000s, electronic medical records really began to become a thing, and if you know anything about my mom, she was technologically challenged, and she found herself behind a desk, trying to figure out how to use the computer instead of being bedside caring for the patient as they transitioned from this life to the next.
And she found herself dealing with bureaucracy and administrative work and electronic medical records. And she began to suffer from emotional and spiritual and relational burnout, if you can imagine going to work each day and losing someone that you basically have cared for, and then attending their funeral day after day. So her desire was to exit the rat race and retire to a quiet life on the farm that my dad and her still lived on. So she ran the idea past her primary financial advisor. We separated family and business. I was eight years into my career at the time.
This was 2010. She ran the idea of retirement past her primary financial advisor, and her advisor pulled out her credentialing, her software, and experience, and she gave my mom the green light; she had enough money to retire. Well, being eight years into my career and being her son, she gave me the honor and privilege of providing a second opinion.
And so I took a look under the hood and pulled out my credentialing, my software, and my experience, and honestly, I came up with the same result, and I gave my mom the green light to retire. And in the fall of 2010, that’s what she did. Shortly after retiring in 2010, we knew something was wrong.
The dark and the cold winter was approaching, and we just found that she felt like she lost her way. She felt very adrift in her retirement, and it turned out that the care and purpose and significance that she had found in her career in hospice was now nowhere to be found within the four walls of her home.
My dad was still working, still farming, and hadn’t retired, and her network of social connections were still employed at the office, and they were unavailable for connecting throughout her day. And she was bored, and she was wandering, and she knew exactly what she had retired from. But John, she had no idea what she was retiring to.
And she had enough money to sleep at night, but not enough purpose to get up in the morning, and she fell into a deep depression. And, six months after retiring, on the morning of March 22nd, 2011, my mom, Pam Hixon, chose to take her life. And the ripple effects of that decision were staggering.
My dad, high school sweethearts, now had no one to spend the balance of his life with. My sister and I, no mom to journey through life with. And my kids, her grandkids, would miss out on the blessing that their grandma would be to them as they grew up. And I was left to pick up the pieces. Tommy, I was one of the financial advisors that gave her the green light to retire, the very thing that led to her death. The immense amount of guilt and shame that I felt were tangible.
And I could have let that guilt and that shame define me, to ruin me. But I chose, by God’s grace, to turn that tragedy into triumph and those stumbling blocks into stepping stones, and I learned a lot along the way. And I’ve come to understand that reflecting on and understanding meaning and purpose is crucial to the decision of retiring and figuring out what’s next.
I learned the hard way that the pre-retiree needs to define not just what they’re retiring from, but to do the hard work of discovering what they’re retiring to. That’s the story, and that’s what’s led to the book and ultimately our conversation today.
John Mason: Tony, that is an amazing and tragic story, and just so amazing that you share it both on this platform and on your other platforms.
I know you’ve talked about this several times on several different outlets, and you know, I lost a dog a couple days ago, and it was super impactful and changes your family and changes your life, and I’m certainly not comparing Pam Hixon to a pet. I’m just saying, like, I think we can all relate in some way to what it’s like to lose somebody, and then certainly there is guilt and shame over you could have spent more time together.
You could have gone on more walks. You could have been friendlier to your dog every time you walked in. Like, there are so many things that just reverberate through your life when somebody’s taken from you so quickly, and I know this event as of a week ago changed my life, and I hope that, you know, and it’s not nearly as significant as what you went through.
I just hope that I’m strong enough as a financial planner and as a person to take these things that I learned at 38 years old and can transform my life and our practice and what we’re doing here like you’ve transformed your life, your family, your practice from this event that happened over 15 years ago.
Tony Hixon: Thank you for those kind words, and my goal is to, as I said, turn that tragedy to triumph and, quite literally, the thousands of people that my book and our coaching service has helped since then. I’ve been told many times that I think Mom might be looking down on me and smiling, so I continue to have passion toward this project, and that’s why I really appreciate an opportunity to educate your audience on some learnings that I’ve had since that tragedy occurred.
John Mason: Do I remember correctly that the proceeds of your book and what you do goes into a foundation or something? Can you refresh my memory?
Tony Hixon: Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up. Yeah, the goal of the book was to help others. My mom was a nurse, and as such, she cared for her patients well. I’m a financial advisor.
John, Tommy, you guys are financial advisors, and as such, we want to care for our clients well. And my goal isn’t to become rich off this story in any way, shape, or form. It’s to honor her legacy by caring for others. And so you’re right, all proceeds from the sale of the book go to the Pam Hixon Memorial Nursing Scholarship that my wife and I set up at a local university to bless a nursing student who has good grades and financial need.
It’s been an honor to meet with a scholarship recipient for the past 10 years since we started the scholarship fund and tell the story to them and remind them and encourage them that caring for themselves can be just as important as caring for others in their healthcare journey.
John Mason: That’s amazing, Tony. And audience, I’m sure Tony, maybe you can send us an email or send us a notification on if our listeners wanted to do more research on that scholarship program or potentially make a donation. Audience, we know Tony. We’ve met a few times. We think everything’s legit.
Understand we haven’t gone into all of the inner workings of this charitable foundation, but we think it’s probably a pretty cool thing, and if you do your research and want to donate to it, we’ll include that in the show notes and description as well, and make sure we give you all the resources you need so that Pam’s legacy continues living on.
And not only what you’re doing, Tony, but hopefully this Federal Employee Financial Planning podcast can make a difference too.
Tony Hixon: Wow, what an honor. Thank you for considering that. I really appreciate that.
John Mason: Tommy, I think where I’d like to go is as we think about some of the stuff that Tony mentioned already, which were two of the things that really stood out to me in the book: enough money to sleep well at night and enough purpose to get up in the morning, and we knew what we were retiring from, we didn’t know what we were retiring to. We’ve had another guest that says retirement is an empty bucket unless you fill it with something. So I want to start with burnout because frankly, audience, I’m 38 years old. I’ve been doing this for 17 years or so, and Tommy and I are managing a big firm with a lot of responsibilities.
We’re financial planners. We’re husbands. We’re fathers. We have a lot going on, and there are some days where we feel a little burnout, and there are some days where we think, “Oh man, retiring at 50 would just be glorious.” You know, we don’t have any retirement plans, audience, so just so you know, we’re still here for the long run.
We’re still growing the firm. But yeah, let’s just call it out. Sometimes life is harder, and we’re in a pretty hard phase of life. And I know I’ve had the thought, Tommy, that when I retire, all of that goes away, right? Like I know I’ve thought that. And then this book completely made me think that I’m just way off base, and it just reshaped my whole thought about clearly being 50 or 55 and retired is not the solution to my problem.
I need to figure out how to minimize the burnout today.
Tommy Blackburn: Yes, I think burnout’s a great place to start. And I keep coming back to “tragedy to triumph,” and I feel like it’s just such a great framing of all of this, Tony, what you’ve done with it, the impact it’s had on the world.
And it’s really cool as I think about it from that perspective is that the advisors that are now learning and being impacted and being able to learn this lesson and take that triumph even further. So just very much appreciate what you’ve done with the situation. Going back to burnout, John, yeah, I think if you retire, you’re probably going to get rid of burnout, but we have to have the purpose after the burnout.
So it’s almost like the nuclear option to solve burnout, and on the back end, you just have to have something to fill it. So I do think that’s a great place to start, because I think that is true of many… probably everybody has that thought, right, where you have the burnout days, just like, “I’m just ready to hang it up, and it’ll be so much easier on the back end.”
And unpacking why we need to think past that. The other thing, John, that I think you mentioned in your notes that I really enjoyed from the book that I know we’ll get to, is the concept of the halftime, and maybe that comes into this burnout equation.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, I’m happy to weigh in. The one visual that comes to mind when I think about burnout is the idea of being in the woods under a dense fog.
The last thing that you do—there is an edge to the fog, by the way, the cloud dissipates at some point—the last thing you do is try to run toward that edge when you’re in the midst of a dense fog in the woods. You’ll likely face-plant right into a tree. And so the better way to navigate that type of scenario is actually to cautiously step forward, feeling your way forward, and taking a more measured approach forward.
Not making rash or chaotic decisions in the moment, but really thinking it through. And I’m glad you guys are picking up on what I was trying to communicate in the book, which is just slowing down and processing the decision. And a client’s first reaction is, “Well, I don’t want to take the time to do that.
That sounds painful. I just want to get to the golf course,” or, “I want to live the American ideal of what I see on TV of what retirement can be.” And I think I’m trying to fight against that cultural norm in that I think it’s okay to slow down. I think it’s okay to take the time needed to discover what’s next, and that first step is to identify your values.
And so in the midst of burnout, it’s really thinking into who you are, who you’re encoded to be, what interests you, what do you care about, what brings you passion and joy beyond imagination? And it might not be the work you’re doing, and that’s okay. But you can stay there for a little bit while you discover the person that you are, and that ultimately leads to that person that you want to become and be in retirement.
John Mason: Tony, the workbook that’s on tonyhixon.com, Retirement Stepping Stones: Find Meaning, Live with Purpose, and Leave a Legacy, it walks people through that, doesn’t it?
Tony Hixon: It does. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And, fast-forward, one of the blessings that has come as a part of the release of this book… I’m the kind of guy that when I read a book, I put it back on the bookshelf, and I forget about it six months later or maybe six weeks later. I didn’t want that to happen to my book. I really wanted to affect change for the reader. And a good buddy of mine, friend and mentor, was going through a bit of a career transition of his own—a 32-year career in dentistry, not exactly knowing what was next.
And our stories came together in that as he was transitioning out, I thought, “Man, wouldn’t it be nice to have him as part of our team where he could be somewhat of a life coach and be the hands and feet of the book?” And so as a result, we’ve developed a department within our firm where we deal specifically with the non-financial side of retirement.
So it’s all the learnings that we have in the book, just in workshop form. And as part of his workshop, we have a deck of cards, a 52-card deck where every card has a different value and a description of what it is.
And so the attendee or the client or the person simply takes two piles: “These are potentially what I’m really interested in or what describes me,” and “These are not.” Once you get down to the two piles, you cast aside the one that isn’t you, and you pick up the ones that you thought were.
And there could be 20 cards in that particular deck. We ask you to get them to 10, and that can be painful, right? Trying to weed out exactly what those 10 are that are trying to survive the cut, but it makes you think really hard. And just when the client or the person who’s going through the exercise takes a deep breath and says, “Here’s my 10,” we say, “Get it to five.”
And so at that point, it becomes a deeper introspection. It takes a longer time for them to really parse out who they are encoded to be, what really truly excites them. And when those five are before them, that’s when we start the hard work of developing what could be next for them.
John Mason: Wow. It’s amazing to think about 52 different values down to 20, down to 10, down to five. And one of the things I liked in the book that I thought would resonate…
I don’t think I’d be good at that exercise. I don’t know that I’m self-aware enough or emotionally intelligent enough to do well in that exercise. But you gave us a tip. You said, “John, you should do it with Sarah. You should sit down with your parents. You should solicit the help of the people that know you and love you” because if you’re not good at this activity by yourself, maybe you can get some insight from the people that I drive crazy throughout my life.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, well said. I’m glad you picked up on that because oftentimes you are at a tripping point where you just can’t decide, and inviting the spouse or a significant other or a friend into the conversation is very helpful.
Tommy Blackburn: Could be helpful. I’m thinking, John, where we are in our lives, there might be a little bit of hard truths there if our spouses give us our values.
That would be a fun exercise.
John Mason: It would be. You know, in the book you talked about—I forget, maybe it was like Joe and Susan. I don’t remember if they were the Arizona couple or the RV couple, but one of them… A lot of people have… The audience knows I have an RV.
I’m currently selling it, so surprise, audience, the RV’s up for sale. We’ll talk about that in another episode. But this RV couple in your book, a lot of clients have this idea. They’re like, “I’m going to retire. I’m going to get a Class A motor home or a fifth wheel. I’m going to travel the country.”
Well then, in your book, was it Joe and Susan? Am I getting that right?
Tony Hixon: You are, yes.
John Mason: Yeah, so Joe and Susan, their values were like friends, community, family. Summarizing it was like, “Hey, bro, an RV’s not going to work for you because you’re talking about being isolated, and you just said that you need to be around people.”
And then it gets my mind going because I’m a major extrovert. I’m like, “Well, I thought I wanted to do the RV thing, too.” Now I’m questioning my life. I’m like, “Maybe an RV’s not for me.” You know? It’s just a mind game, and it’s so cool, Tommy, that we’re having these conversations and thoughts now.
Tony Hixon: And isn’t it great that prior to this conversation, prior to this book, that was the furthest thing from your mind? And as we sit across the table from clients who think nothing of it, they simply want to know if they have enough money. As financial advisors, we’re trained and we have the designations to determine that.
We have the software, and we can check those boxes very easily. We get paid to do that. But we also have a front seat to the knowledge that there’s some statistics that these retirees are going to have to overcome.
The first of which is within the first six months of retirement, over 40% of retirees will experience some sort of anxiety or depression, simply because of the life disruption. Within the first two years of retirement, divorce rates spike as you go from a bit of healthy separation during the career phase to now being together all the time. And if you’re in each other’s space, that can weigh on a marriage relationship. And so just the knowledge of knowing that you’re an extrovert and you want to go in an RV, that might not be a conversation that a normal advisor would have with you, but armed with this knowledge from a non-financial aspect, it should be the first conversation your financial advisor should have with you to ensure that your values align with what’s next for you.
Tommy Blackburn: Yeah, and as we think about what we experience here to kind of exactly what you’re saying, how often have we nailed the numbers before we’ve nailed what the life looks like? And it feels like the natural starting place is we do assess the numbers. That’s what we’ve been trained to do.
That’s what most of the work has always been about. But also pressing on, okay, well, what’s the day-to-day going to look like? What’s the month-to-month? What are we going to fill our time with? Essentially, what are we retiring with? John and I are seeing that more and more as we go through our career.
Maybe it’s just developing skills. Hopefully, those are accelerating now as we get further exposure to it.
John Mason: I know there’s a couple people listening to this podcast, two clients in particular, who listen to every episode, and both of them are long-term clients, and I’ve probably been working with them since 2012 or 2014, both of them.
And the numbers have been good for a decade. We knew they were on track, and we were able to start having these conversations. On one client, his spouse was a stay-at-home spouse. She had a routine, she had her friends, she had all of these things. She had already figured that out.
I’m like, “Man, you’ve got to figure it out because she’s good already.” And it was a natural conversation because we could do it financially, so we got to move to the next step. And then there’s another guy in particular I’m thinking of. I know him and his wife listen to a lot of the podcast episodes together, and he hasn’t retired yet.
He left the federal government, went to a second career, and I think he maybe is going to fall into the camp of a traditional retirement just doesn’t work for him. Maybe he likes to go to work 20, 30, 40 hours a week. Maybe he prioritizes that and likes that and needs that. Amy Florian talked about not “shoulding” all over people and not telling people what they should do.
I think I’m getting that right. I think it was Amy. And I think about this man in particular, this family, I’m like, “Dude, you can go. Like, you can retire. What are we waiting on?” And that’s kind of like me “shoulding” all over him a little bit. It’s like, well, maybe this is what he needs.
I maybe don’t get it because it’s not financially necessary. But I guess I just want to open up the conversation to let people know, if you’re listening and your retirement’s not glamorous and beautiful, and maybe you’ve fallen into some depression or anxiety, that’s normal and that happens, and not everybody loves it.
So you’re not necessarily unique and different, and people are out there and shouldn’t judge you for feeling that way. So then moving, Tony, into a plan B, which says, okay, retirement can be glamorous and it can be perfect, or it could go south pretty quickly. We need a plan B. And I think Dan the dentist in your book talked about how if he didn’t like it, he would go back and teach.
The client I’m thinking about, maybe he’s going to work part-time forever because that’s what he needs. So it’s really opened up my mind to just being more understanding. The default is you see a 70-year-old who’s still working, busting his butt, busting her butt, with two, three, four million dollars, and you’re like, “Why are you doing that?”
And now I’m probably not going to say that anymore because the why could be a variety of different reasons, and the last thing I want to do is make somebody feel bad for going to work and then that be the thing that sends them down a darker side. So like I said, I’ve learned a lot from this.
Tommy Blackburn: Well, I think what I would avoid there is “shoulding” all over them, like you said. I think it’s perfectly… I think it’s still fine and insightful to ask, like, “Why are you doing this?” because you’ve hit financial freedom. And then accept the answer if it’s that, “I love doing this.” Like, “You think I’m burning myself out, but…”
So I would still be curious, like, because maybe they don’t realize they don’t have to do it, or maybe there’s still something there to explore, but… or maybe it is just as simple as like, “I’m still very passionate about this, and I’m doing it just because I love it,” and that’s cool. But I think it’s good to ask the question.
Just don’t have the assumption of what they should be doing.
Tony Hixon: Yeah. I think too, guys, that one of the 52 value card exercises that we do—one of the values is meaningful work. And if the client, the prospect, the person isn’t aware that meaningful work is actually one of their values, they can be retired and really lose that purpose, but be embarrassed to go back into the workforce because of how it looks to their friends, to their circle of influence.
So it’s really trying to remove that possible stigma of them going back to work because it can be the embarrassment factor. “Oh, they just weren’t doing well,” or “They didn’t have enough money after all,” or all the common American assumptions that we put onto this. Simply by having a plan B and recognizing if meaningful work is actually part of your values, it can be certainly less disruptive if retirement doesn’t go as well as they had thought.
John Mason: Yeah, going back to work is certainly not, you know, it doesn’t mean you ran out of money or were irresponsible. It’s not necessarily a failure. And as I think about your statement that retirement is halftime, and then you still have a second half of your game that you need to think about, and meaningful work and purpose, it just occurred to me that when you’re born, you spend the first 18 years of your life being told what to do, where you have to go, where you’re going to be.
Then you go to college, and you get a little bit of freedom, and then after that, you report to a job, and they tell you where to be, and you really don’t have much say over your life at all, you know, for a significant period of years—40, 50, 60 years. And then you end up at retirement, and now we know health is improving, we know longevity is improving.
Who knows what the next technological healthcare revolution is going to do? It could extend lives to 100, which means you’re going to wake up one day with 30, 40, 50 years of unplanned time, nobody telling you where to be, potentially no purpose, and that’s… You know, I don’t know that I’ve ever… Well, I know for sure that I don’t do a good job when I don’t have deadlines and client meetings scheduled.
If my calendar is blank, and it’s my job to fill it, I struggle with that.
Tommy Blackburn: Yeah, you’re paralyzed.
John Mason: Yeah. It’s like, ah, I don’t know how to survive. So yeah, it’s just… I guess my message here is you need to win both halves of the game, and you talk about this in Halftime. Like, you have to win both halves.
You need to win the game. And the money side of things is like, I won the first half almost. And now it’s like, how am I going to win the second half—living with purpose, leaving a legacy, doing all these things? That’s probably how you win the second half. Arguably, you still need to do smart financial things too, but maybe that’s how you win half two.
Tony Hixon: That’s right. Yeah, and to your point, picking up on the halftime analogy, it’s hard to remember what the score was at halftime on any football game in recent memory, right? I can barely remember who won the Super Bowl last year, let alone the score at halftime of a game.
And so, you know, the best teams go into the locker room, and during halftime, they talk about adjustments and they think through strategy so that they can come out in the second half and win the game. And isn’t it important—or isn’t it a good idea—for a federal employee who sharpened their skill for the past 25, 30-plus-year career to continue to bless humanity with the skill that they have acquired instead of languishing in front of a screen for the—to your point about longevity—next 30-plus, 40-plus years in retirement?
So, it’s really taking that halftime and determining an exciting way and a strategic way to come out in the second half and win the game.
Tommy Blackburn: Yeah. Well, what I like about that halftime analogy in particular is it’s: slow down, take a breath, and come up with a strategy for the next phase. And to me, it almost seems to acknowledge, like, you probably don’t have that yet because you’ve been fighting the first half.
So it’s okay. Take a break, and now come up with a plan. Particularly when you think about burnout, to me, the burnout analogy is where that comes in, where you do need to assess and acknowledge that you probably don’t have the strategy yet. Here’s the time to come up with that strategy. I have so many different thoughts on the different directions you can go here.
I love the plan B. And I think, John, as I’m thinking about the whole going back to work, I’m thinking of one client who it’s been really cool to watch retire. He went to a university, did part-time work, then went to another university, leading a huge organization now—probably going to change something in history, if I had to guess, just based on his brilliance and his ability to lead.
So cool to watch all this. And one of the powerful things is financial freedom has been very empowering to him because it removed “you don’t have to work where you don’t want to work anymore.” And so he took… I guess the halftime was that part-time professor gig, and then it was, “Well, actually, here’s really what I want to do,” and now he’s going forward with no financial pressure whatsoever.
And my thought around that is I just think it’s different for everybody. Having your financial feet under you can empower you. Probably not on its own, though. You have to come up with a purpose and put some thought into this, but maybe it’s working part-time, maybe it’s not working at all.
It could be anything, I guess, that aligns to your values here, like we’re saying. So it’s just different for everybody. I see so many people where burnout is real, and I think they have talents. I don’t think going back to work full-time under the pressure… Or I guess that’s what the financial piece of it relieves, in my mind, is that you don’t have to be dictated to.
But you can still go forth with purpose and do it on your terms.
John Mason: Our song that we used to have on the podcast—maybe we’ll play it in this one—”You can rest easy once your plan is done. You’re going to see just how you have won.” Like, that’s what we’re talking about here, and the value of working with a financial planner is that we can help you unlock financial freedom.
We can help show you that you have enough money to sleep well at night and do the things that you want to do in retirement. We can help show you all of that, and then hopefully that then unlocks your ability to start thinking about the second half of the game. And as I think about this football analogy just one step further, if you watch Tom Brady or the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and they go three and out when they get the ball, what’s he doing when he goes over to the bench?
Is he having a party? No. He’s on the iPad. He’s on the phone with the offensive coordinator. They’re figuring out what they did wrong, what they need to improve, what they’re going to do on the next drive, and that’s financial planning. Financial planning and life planning means constantly reassessing the game plan.
That doesn’t mean you hire Mason & Associates today, the market goes down 30%, and you fire us tomorrow. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is you have a good game plan, and sometimes along the way, you need to make tweaks. Life changes. You want to move. We need a plan B in retirement. So audience, don’t be upset if the first couple plays that you called in retirement aren’t working for you.
Let me reassess. Let’s get back. Let’s get a new game plan. Let’s move on to the next set of downs and see if we can’t do better this time.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, I often think, too, I’ve heard the analogy or the statistic that pre-retirement, within five years of retirement, a client or person will focus on the numbers side 90% to 10%.
Upon retirement, that ratio flips, and they’re not nearly as worried about the numbers anymore because the financial advisor has done five years’ worth of technical planning up to that point. And so they spend a minority of their time worrying about that, but 90% of their time now is consumed with: what am I going to do with 40-plus hours per week that I had some structure, I had some social connections, I had some work to do, some meaning and purpose behind my week, and now I’ve got nothing but space?
And golf’s fun, but 40 hours of it, I’m just as burnt out on that as I was my job. The honey-do list has now dissipated to nothing, and you’re looking at the upcoming week wondering, “How am I going to get to Saturday and be okay with myself?” So, your point’s super valid about the financial independence side, the financial freedom side.
Yeah, it allows you to have that retirement. My book has a couple chapters devoted to getting the financial part right, but that ratio does flip, and a client will think more about what am I going to do with my life upon retirement.
Tommy Blackburn: I think we can say from our experience that’s very accurate, working with clients, just anecdotally.
Once we… as the relationship goes with time, a lot of it’s proving the plan, getting everybody confident with it. Once we’ve lived it for a little while, once we’re confident, there’s almost no time talking about the numbers anymore, and all the time is more about the relationship and the coaching and the purpose that you’re getting to.
Speaking of percentages here, I think in your book you said there was the conversation nobody’s having, and Bob Laura, I think, talked about this as well, where when you’re structuring your retirement and you have these thoughts about what it’s going to be, it’s like, well, maybe you should talk with your family and those you’re close to and these other people that you have these assumptions about in your mind.
John Mason: And I think tagging onto that is plan your average Tuesday. I love that. And you say people don’t plan for their average Tuesday because it’s boring. It’s like, well, you’re going to have more average Tuesdays than you are cruises around the world and Viking River trips or trips to Alaska, whatever.
So plan your average Tuesday because that’s your world. You’re going to see the grandkids a fraction of the days of the year, but you need to wake up the other 350 with some sort of purpose and some sort of game plan.
Tony Hixon: The worst-case scenario of that, John, is when an average Tuesday ends up with watching CNN the entire time, the Cable News Network.
And once they get it planted into their mind that the world is crashing, they come schedule an appointment with John and Tommy, and they say, “I want out of the market,” right? So that is the last thing that we want our clients to do—sit in front of a screen doom-scrolling for the balance of their day when they could really end up being productive and blessing humanity with the skills they’ve acquired.
Tommy Blackburn: That’s a really good point. Particularly, yeah, turn off the media because it’s designed to elicit emotions and take you usually down dark paths. And John, what I was saying was sort of boring Tuesday, but the conversation we’re not having… Maybe I’m seeing some of like, “I’m going to move to be near the kids and the grandkids.”
And people probably do want you close, but again, have you talked to them about it? Because they might be busy working professionals with busy kids’ schedules. To Tony’s point about how you’re going to fill a day, your assumption may not be valid. It may be stretched a little bit there as to how much that’s going to fill, so it’s so much more powerful, intentional, and informed to have that conversation proactively before we make a decision based on an assumption.
John Mason: Are you enjoying this conversation? Do you know someone who’s burned out at work or about to retire? Remember, you can be someone’s hero by sharing this episode and every episode with friends, family, and coworkers across the country. The transition to retirement isn’t always easy or as glamorous as you would expect, and this episode can help the people you care about transition successfully into their next chapter, or as Tony says, the second half.
Are you ready to move from general education to personalized advice? You can start that process at masonllc.net or 757-223-9898. Otherwise, keep hanging out with us right here on the Federal Employee Financial Planning Podcast. Tony, in the book you talk about the honeymoon period, and maybe I’ll get this wrong—I’m going to define it as the immediate six months after retirement. And so you retire, you have a honeymoon period. I think that consists of: you replace your HVAC or whatever home improvement project, you take your one or two big trips, you get your 10 items on the honey-do list completed, and retirement is rocking.
And then the honeymoon period ends. I guess I just would like you to elaborate on the honeymoon period. How long does it last? How do you prepare for the honeymoon? How do you prepare for the end of the honeymoon? Is that when the average Tuesday thing kicks in—after the honeymoon phase? And do people stay in the honeymoon phase longer than others, or is it always three or six months?
Tony Hixon: Yeah, that’s a good question. I think it’s the common honeymoon of a marriage. You guys are both happily married and have some children as well, and so I know that you’ve experienced the honeymoon phase yourself. And there is some euphoria to it.
You’re together, you’re building a new life together, and it’s all fun. And then there’s some point where the bathroom needs cleaned, the laundry needs done, she needs to pick up her socks, on and on the list goes, and you’re faced with the harsh reality that marriage is hard, and if we’re going to work this out and stay together, we’re going to have to do the hard thing.
And so I would say that the honeymoon phase of retirement does typically last around, from my experience in 25 years in the business, about six months. And that’s okay. From our standpoint, we let the client enjoy it. We want them to have their time of “this is fun and cool, and we’ve got a few trips planned, and a few honey-do list items completed.”
But we’re also here for you when that honeymoon phase is done and you’re faced with Monday and Tuesday wondering what you’re going to do next. We’re here for you, and we’ve got the coaching, the book, the coaching network, and the learnings and insights to help you really plan for a successful and meaningful second half.
John Mason: I’m curious—Tommy and I didn’t talk about this before the podcast, but the people listening hear a lot—federal employees, maybe some private sector, maybe some military—a common theme with our clients is phenomenal guaranteed income: military pension, VA disability, a federal pension (FERS or CSRS), two big Social Security checks.
So I’m curious, in your experience—I don’t know how many people with pensions you’ve worked with in your practice—mentally leading into retirement, do you notice any difference when people have gigantic pensions (sorry audience, lucrative pensions, big pensions that nobody else has)?
I know they’re not all gigantic, but you have them. And then you pair it with Federal Employees Health Benefits, which is yet another very lucrative benefit. And in the book, we talk about $300,000 of medical expenses, but our clients just pay premiums for the most part in retirement; they don’t really have a ton of out-of-pocket expense. Do you notice any sort of psychological or emotional difference?
Do people with pensions tend to transition easier? Do people who leave government or military service transition easier? Is it harder? Is it the same? Just curious.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, I love the question. We do have a local company that still offers a very lucrative pension, so we do have quite a bit of experience there.
Without me doing the Google search, does the FERS have a COLA adjustment—cost of living? Yeah. Awesome. It certainly gives a bigger peace of mind, and yet I think most people don’t fully understand what a blessing that is. And so for you and Tommy to shine the light on just the immense amount of stability that pension can provide allows their financial mindset to really be set at ease so that they can then focus even more on the non-financial side, continuing that impact on humanity in their lives.
So yeah, your client base is set up for success for sure, and I’m really pleased and happy that you guys get to walk alongside their financial journey.
John Mason: And Tommy, this is why it’s so important. You know, we harp on full survivor benefits—in fact, so much that we’ll barely even consider working with a family who wants to decline survivor benefits on their military or federal pension.
The stability, the less stress, the not having to worry as much about the market, the peace of mind… if that helps you live an awesome retirement—and in Tony’s experience and our experience, it does do that—it’s different for you than it is for others. Why would we want your spouse, at the worst possible time, after you just died, going through a stressful time—death, Social Security incomes going away… We didn’t take survivor benefits, so that guaranteed income goes away, and they’re left with a Social Security benefit that maybe they claimed at 62 and a portfolio they don’t have a lot of experience managing. That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me, and it just reinforces even more, Tommy—not that we needed it—that survivor benefits is the good decision, not just because the math works, but because it helps you as a human.
Tommy Blackburn: Exactly.
Yes. As I was thinking, we have looked at the math behind it, and we believe the math is just as solid as the emotional reasons, but the emotional reasons or the behavioral reasons, psychological, however you want to frame this, may be more important. And when we’re going through tough transitions in life, it’s nice not to have one other thing on your mind.
And not to say… Most people in the country don’t have these pensions. It is certainly navigable. A good plan can help get through all of this, but why add to that when you have an option to avoid this, so it takes some of that stress away? And yep, so I think we are all in complete agreement there, John.
And thank you, Tony. We feel privileged and honored to work with our client base, as I’m sure every advisor does, and it’s pretty cool. There are benefits that we get to come alongside and help them structure that plan together, and it seems like maybe we are fortunate. Not all of our clients are federal.
We have plenty of private sector without pensions that we counsel as well, but probably fortunate. I think John and I and the firm have talked before that we kind of think a lot of times we get to focus on maybe some of this other stuff that is more fun or more emotional. I say fun, I guess fun for a financial planner, of helping you think through the bigger things in life versus…
You know, we can take away the financials pretty quickly of like, “Hey, we’ve solved income. We’ve made the benefit choices. We’ve explained all of this,” so the financial stress is just less of a piece of a conversation. It’s not to say it’s not there. It’s not to say that people… You still have plenty of money scripts and preconceptions.
Decumulation is still… It’s funny because… Well, I guess what we see as a way to put it is we have to really help our clients in many situations take assets… because they don’t need it for their basic living expenses typically. Between a pension and Social Security, they’re usually pretty well covered, so we are a lot of times having conversations of: what’s the purpose of what you’ve saved and built, and how do we use this money?
How do you enjoy it? So we’ve been having a lot of those conversations. Wouldn’t you say, John?
John Mason: Absolutely, and hitting your point, that’s the value, Tony, of having a niche—when you specialize with federal employees, you can just come in, deliver the boom. You know their benefits.
You know how their retirement works. You can solve for all of that so much faster that then you can get to actually know the human behind the numbers, and you can spend more time talking about the things we’re talking about today. I mean, if we tried to work with a company in your backyard, you could have helped five of those people retire before we even learn the first rule about their employer benefit plan.
So who’s going to serve that client better? You, because you know them.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, and vice versa. You guys are obviously very skilled and have competence beyond anyone that I know in the federal employee space, and if I encounter a prospect from that world, I’m sending them straight to you because I’m wise enough to know what I don’t know, and I know that John and Tommy are the two guys that will.
So I think it also leads into, Tommy, your point where sometimes you have to convince them to spend. It does lead into just helping them leave that legacy before their estate planning documents kick in. Most attorneys think that it’s cool to put all the inheritance in the will, and you have to die for the next generation to really be blessed or for your philanthropic goals to be met.
Now why not start today? Why not define what that legacy is that you’d like to leave and see it in action? Whether that be a charitable intent or whether it be a child that’s in need of financial assistance to get to college, you can still be alive and see the blessing and the benefit that your money can have on that next generation and on that nonprofit organization.
Tommy Blackburn: I think we couldn’t agree more. Yeah, exactly. I was thinking, man, I wish I could have like the stadium applause going as you were saying that, because we’re completely aligned. That was definitely one of many mic-drop moments you’ve had on the podcast. We completely agree.
We have had a saying that I picked up from a stranger on a trip—and it’s probably a very common saying, but we recorded, did a YouTube on it as well—which was… and I remember him talking to me, taking his family, his daughters who are like college age, on this trip and said, “Oh, well, I’m just a believer in you can leave it to them with a warm hand or a cold hand.”
And so I was like, man, that’s such a succinct way of saying this. I think it’s kind of saying the same thing, of you can have a legacy while you’re alive or you can have a legacy when you’re not. I mean, it’s up to you. And there are points to both. I’m not saying that one is wrong or right, but being able to see it while you’re alive, I think most people probably would prefer, at least in some form or fashion, some of that.
John Mason: Most people are probably just scared, you know, if we’re just going to be transparent, is, “Well, what if I don’t have enough money for me if I donate this to charity or give this to my kid?
And what happens if I have a long-term care event, or what happens if the market goes down?” So there are a million reasons why you wouldn’t start that legacy transfer of assets now. Again, yeah, this is a little bit of a plug for the three of us. That’s why you work with a financial planner who can help show you that and stress test the portfolio and show you that, yes, you can do these things today.
And I know the audience knows that Tommy and I have read Die with Zero by Bill Perkins. You know, I don’t think dying with zero is necessarily where we want to be, but a similar concept of bringing some enjoyment forward, helping people today, and I anchor in that book too. If I leave my son $10 million when he’s 75 years old, that’s after he’s been through all the hardest times of his life.
He already saved for retirement. He already made it on his own. All of these things have already happened. He gets $10 million. I mean, he’s not going to say no, but it’s not life-changing. Me helping him buy his first house at 24, that’s life-changing. Me helping him graduate debt-free from college is life-changing.
You know, their charities may not be in existence 40 years from now. If you don’t help them today, they may not be there when you pass away. So that’s kind of what I anchored to in that book, and just driving home the points that you guys made, I think very solid and a lot of good takeaways from this episode.
Tommy Blackburn: I know we’ll probably hit some wrap-up takeaways, but one of the items I just wanted to mention at least before we wrap it up, if that’s where we’re going, is—and maybe we already hit it—was the idea of test-driving retirement. So it kind of goes in with like the halftime and coming up with the plan.
This is all great for us to further refine ourselves. I think for a long time we have kind of said, like, you should use your annual leave versus saving it up in the federal world. They can save it up, retire where they get a big check, whereas we’ve been more proponents of: I mean, that’s fine to do, but maybe enjoy your annual leave while you’re working.
And, you know, maybe that goes into a little bit of this test-drive your retirement. Take some time off, take the halftime, test the retirement budget, all of this, which feeds hand in hand with the plan B. So I just wanted to mention it because I think we agree, not to say we can’t get better at spreading that message, but we certainly agree and try to coach people.
John Mason: I think we’ve done a really good job historically talking about the budget. Like, if I ever encountered somebody where it’s like, “Hey, you’re going to have to cut your budget by $1,000 a month,” that doesn’t happen often, but let’s say it does. Well, let’s not just wake up and try to do that one day. Let’s save $1,000 more into TSP now, put on the training wheels.
What you’re saying, Tommy—and Tony, you said in the book—was use your leave, get a VRBO, go spend three or four weeks in Arizona, see if you actually like it. You know, I think also here you said go connect. You know, we have a lot of military veterans listening to this. Go connect with a military veterans retirement group before you retire.
Go start hanging out with them. Find your network of people. Find those connections so you can put on your training wheels in a lot of different ways: budget, location, contacts. Start finding where you want to volunteer. What else, Tony, can people do as they get close to retirement?
Tony Hixon: You guys are very astute.
You’ve nailed it on the head. I want to make sure I don’t forget to say thank you to the veterans who are listening to the episode. Freedom isn’t free. Really appreciate the service that those have provided for the protection and service to our country.
Yeah, putting on the training wheels, and taking those extra time that you have away—maybe trying, John, trying RVing before the extrovert in you realizes that’s not the thing that you actually want to do.
Those are all great ideas to do before you actually pull the trigger and find out that you’re disappointed with that trajectory that you were on. So I think it’s just… this is a great conversation, and it’s just a good reminder to those who are listening and to your clients to think about it.
There aren’t a lot of other financial advisors that have this front-row seat that are asking these questions. And John and Tommy, you guys are, or you’re going to be. So I’m privileged and honored to share Mom’s story so that story could impact you and ultimately your clients.
The impact that the book is having and that our coaching network is having is huge, and it’s a privilege and honor to steward that story with you today.
Tommy Blackburn: Well, thank you. I think, thank you, Tony. And Bob Laura was somewhat similar thought process, mind, and message here.
Really appreciate it. Really appreciate you sharing it with our audience, getting us the books so that we could educate ourselves and be prepared for today’s conversation. John, I think one other takeaway just from me, which everybody’s hit here… I don’t know if it’s… I want to say it’s almost a universal truth.
I don’t know if maybe that’s a strong statement because everybody’s different. I think social networks… Like, I think humans are meant to be… Some of us are more extroverted than others. Like, John might need a social network of a few hundred people to satisfy that part of him.
But I think everybody… I think it’s just a huge part of staying mentally healthy, living a purposeful life. So again, find that group, find… have that in place, in a plan. And I think that helps a lot of any of these issues that come up. Wonderful point.
John Mason: Tony, there are steps in your book. I don’t remember how many steps. There were a lot of steps—stepping stones, but they’re measurable, they’re attainable. Folks, you can do them, and you take the stepping stones so you avoid stumbling blocks, I think is what you say. And at least my favorite stepping stones that I wrote down: explore your purpose and value, plan your average Tuesday, build your network, and have a backup plan.
I know there are more, but for me, those four were the ones that really stood out, and Tony would like to give you time for any closing comments or thoughts.
Tony Hixon: Yeah, I appreciate that. And as I look on the screen here, I see two young dads, and I just really want to encourage you on your journey. The kids that you’re in charge of stewarding, there’s no other kid on the face of this planet that can call you Dad except for the ones that you have.
And I sign each book, “The best is ahead,” and I’ve gotten some pushback on that from time to time: “Do you truly believe that, Tony? I mean, the Strait of Hormuz is closed, and the Democrats are in the White House, or the Republicans are in the Senate,” or you name the crisis du jour that is permeating the headlines.
And it’s sometimes hard to believe that you can truly feel that the best is ahead. But guys, the reason that I believe it deeply in my heart is that I create it. I create my “best is ahead” moments, and oftentimes that has to do with mindset and expressing gratitude for the blessings in our lives.
You know, happiness is a reactive emotion. If somebody does something nice for you, you’re happy. Gratitude is a creative emotion. You really have to step back and reflect on those blessings in your life that you take for granted each and every day. And to the extent that you can look into your future and raise your kids to the best of your ability and grow your firm and serve your clients and be good husbands to your wives, those moments of gratitude will help you get to your “best is ahead” moment as well.
So never look ahead from a pessimistic… No statue was ever built to a pessimist. The world belongs to those who believe that the glass is completely full and that the best is truly ahead. So I encourage you to take that tagline and live it out in your journey forward. So thank you guys for having me on the podcast.
John Mason: Tony, thank you. This was transformative for us, transformative for the audience. We’re all better today from speaking with you and reading your book and you sharing your story. You have made a difference with our 400-plus client families, us individually, this podcast audience that gets thousands of downloads.
Tremendous impact. We’re all better for having you here and for the work that you’re doing. We appreciate you.
Tommy Blackburn: Thank you. Thank you, Tony.
John Mason: Audience, remember, we’re financial planners first. We do this second, and in every episode, we hope you leave educated and empowered to make positive changes in your financial plan.
Thanks for hanging out with us on another episode of the Federal Employee Financial Planning Podcast.
The topics discussed on this podcast represent our best understanding of federal benefits and are for informational and educational purposes only, and should not be construed as investment, financial planning, or other professional advice.
We encourage you to consult with the office of personnel management and one or more professional advisors before taking any action based on the information presented.
